Interesting. Ranma should be able to speed-blitz most of his potential opponents, excluding the Accelerator, who has passive defense always active (he has to allow something to touch him). And if both magic and esper powers are different from Ki, that may mean Ki is something new / something no one knows about in the setting. Given the demonstrated abilities (space-folding of stuff-space especially), it may be somewhat of an OCP.Which means that Ranma may actually get one or two hits through past Accelerator's defense before he adapts (I think he has to understand what the hell the thing he's blocking is to be able to block it).
Would Ranma even need more then one hit?
I have a few ideas on how the fight between Accelerator and Ranma would go
A lot of Ranma getting beat up until he figures out the parameters of Accelerator's powers, then he starts laying into the guy the way Amata Kihara did?
Nah, Ranma would assume that Accelerator's barrier directs away as opposed to reversing, and I don't think he would be pulling his punches after seeing Accelerator nearly murder one of the sisters. My bets on Ki attacks, they're an OCP for the To Aru-verse so Accelerators redirection doesn't work on them.
Actually, I could see his reverse barrier not helping out if Ranma were to use an Amaguriken punch. His fist would essentially be reversing directions extremely quickly, but he would still manage to hit Accelerator, just he'd be hitting when he was expecting his fist to pull back and not when he was expecting to actually strike. That might be enough for him to figure it out.
That'd only work if Ranma wasn't trying to punch him though. The first attack that tries to hit Accelerator will be reflected once it nears his skin and Ranma will suffer for that.
He might just opt for a soft style moves and grappling, once he has the gist of what is going on.
Yeah, but the key to the Amaguriken punches is that, indiviually, they aren't tough but they all hit the same spot so close together it breaks through defenses. So Ranma would have a relatively weak punch deflected back into him... which he may or may not sense getting reflected before he throws the next 999 punches in the space of a heartbeat. It really depends on how fast Ranma's perception is compared to his punch speed. If he has to commit to a full attack before he can sense the result of it, then he's screwed. Otherwise he's fine. Ranma's best chance against Accelerator may be the Umisenken, actually. It depends on how the author determines that the White Snake Venom Reliable Fist works. There are two possible ones; in one Ranma just moves behind the opponent so fast they don't percieve him and strikes from their blind spot before moving back to his previous position. In the other he actually makes attacks that literally manifest behind his opponent even though he is striking from the front and that push outward from within the target. In this case, if Accelerator "reflected" those attack they would appear in front of him and push inwards... Into his organs.
Doomsought said: He might just opt for a soft style moves and grappling, once he has the gist of what is going on.
I think Accelerator's vector reversal abilities would still kick in even with soft style moves. Although in this case the reversed vector would probably be weaker and might be enough for Ranma to catch on to the sudden direction reversal trick. There's also stuff like using misdirection and attacks from multiple directions simultaneously to confuse Accelerator. Although I don't know how well that would work if he set up a general reversal shield thingee.
I think the 'cumulative effect' only matters when the opponent is Ryouga, or someone similarly tough. I would think that each individual punch in the amaguriken would be devastating to a normal human being, even if they are scattered all over the place. That said, having ascertained that he's not fighting a martial artist Ranma might indeed be throwing weak punches calculated to not kill a regular human being, which would in turn probably be individually harmless to Ranma even if they were reversed.
Aaron Peori said: Ranma's best chance against Accelerator may be the Umisenken, actually. It depends on how the author determines that the White Snake Venom Reliable Fist works. There are two possible ones; in one Ranma just moves behind the opponent so fast they don't percieve him and strikes from their blind spot before moving back to his previous position. In the other he actually makes attacks that literally manifest behind his opponent even though he is striking from the front and that push outward from within the target. In this case, if Accelerator "reflected" those attack they would appear in front of him and push inwards... Into his organs.
If he could figure out how to do it, the vacuum blade attack from the Yamasenken would also kind of suck for Accelerator, since the motion of the air is mostly lateral to the target, creating a 'ripping' effect, so reversing it just turns it into an air compression blade with a 'crushing' effect that still hits him.
Given that the Umisenken, like the Yamasenken, are burglary techniques that also work as martial art moves when equating a person to a house. It's just sneaking up from behind and punching really damn fast.
For Amaguriken I go by the manga version, it isn't a technique but a passive increase to his speed.
stealing the defeat of accelerator from Touma is a little bit questionable, especially because I don't see how Ranma could do it. Without the imagine breaker, accelerator is basically indestructible, and just touching him allows him to tear you apart, so Ranma can't even use grappling moves against him, and none of Ranma's abilities would be able to get past his defenses, not even the HSH, even if he could get accelerator to make the heat required. Ranma would even have trouble against Railgun, although his speed and martial arts skills and incredible toughness would help a lot, and he'd still probably win if he realized what she was doing and she wasn't going for killing blows.
Knight of L-samaEdit
Though if you really want to have Ranma beat Accelerator you might use the Mouko Takabisha, depending on how you have Ranma's Ki abilities work in the spectrum of magic and ESP abilities.
Actually I think the HSH is exactly what's needed to take down Accelerator. It's not a directed attack like a punch or a kick, it's more like an area-effect technique that Ranma triggers inside his AIM field defenses. Even if Accelerator can redirect the winds and use them against Ranma, the initial attack should be able to pick him up and chuck him a good distance through the air, and to my knowledge Accelerator can't fly. With that weak constitution of his, that one hit should be enough to take him down.
Acelerator would be hard to beat even by energy attacks, his skill allows him to block even UV Rays and is automatic enough so an ambush or surprises will not work so Ranma is going to need to really be careful with a guy that can reverse the flow of any attack. On the other hand he has a little trick called Wind Control that was defeated by using The Sisters to disrupt air flow (or the HSH and the Yamasenken)
A thought to consider on Ranma vs Accelerator. Accelerator's power to change vector force values might actually give Ranma a slight advantage. Accelerator's ability is partly automatic, however greater manipulation with it seems to require him to understand the nature and properties of the vector values he is changing. Ranma has two advantages here, first an element of surprise in that he's much stronger than an average human so in a first encounter scenario Accelerator might underestimate the power behind a physical attack. Second is that ki is a completely foreign force to Accelerator, the Mouko Toukabisha and Shi Shi Houkodan are basically emotionally charged bursts of ki energy which could lead to complications in trying to redirect or change the force of the attack (by the way we've never seen Accelerator trying to redirect a magic attack either). I think that the reason the two ki attacks might work in particular instead of say the Hiru Souten Ha is because they stay in a pure ki energy form where as Hiru Souten Ha uses ki as fuel and converts it to a different force namely wind.
Too much plot armor. Don't see this happening at all. He can redirect the winds easily enough and the impact as well. Billion feet fall? No problem when you can redirect the force of impact! Or reduce the speed of your descent at will. And yes, Accelerator can fly. He consciously limits himself so that gravity will affect him. He can simply let go and float, and then redirect himself in another direction. Anything Ranma can throw at him would be immediately nullified so long as it has a magnitude and direction. And then all Accelerator needs is one touch, and Ranma's blood is flowing in the opposite direction. Can Accelerator catch Ranma? Yes, as he can simply redirect vector values to speed himself up to the point where no one can keep up with him. Ki blasts? Concussive force. Might freak him out once, but completely worthless the second time. Besides, if it's moving towards him, all he has to do is slap it and it'll be moving somewhere else. Say, back towards Ranma at an even greater speed? Honestly, only way Ranma could even come close is if a) you have him use magic or b) Touma helps. Otherwise, no go. The premise is interesting, but this particular plot point just has no way of happening. At all.
I'm pretty sure that rejecting gravity's hold on him will disconnect him from the Earth's rotation, which means that Accelerator's going to start moving straight west at some ludicrous speed the second he tries this. I agree with the rest, though. If the HSH doesn't work out, there's nothing in Ranma's arsenal that can even make Accelerator sneeze. That is part of the point, though; the match-up appears to be completely hopeless to start with, just like it did when Ranma faced Herb/Saffron/name your bad guy of choice, and he pulled a victory out of his ass by being just that goddamn skilled, which makes him a lot like the AC psychics.
Knight of L-samaEdit
Actually he needs direct contact with the bloodstream to pull that trick off. The reason it worked against one of the SISTERS was because she had an open wound that he stuck his finger in.
In a straight line maybe but Accelerator has never shown to possess reaction speeds that are anything other than normal human speed. While he could probably catch up with a sprinting Ranma in an urban environment a hard turn at the right moment would probably make him overshoot enough that Ranma could probably shake him.
The problem is that an Accelerator vs Ranma match isn't just about appearing hopeless. It IS hopeless. It's like pitting Ranma up against the DBZ cast. Completely different leagues. Hell, Accelerator and Biribiri are supposed to be in the same league and he completely outclasses her anyway. So long as you're playing by the rules of physics, Accelerator wins. For Ranma to stand a chance, like I said before, either magic needs to come into the equation or Touma needs to help out. Otherwise, no go. At all.
I also still say nothing Ranma can do can hurt Accellerator. He might surprise and confuse him a few times, but even the HSH won't work due to accelerator's insane defenses and redirection/vector hax, not to mention the difficulty of getting him to trigger it in the first place, since he isn't a ki user and doesn't produce that much heat or have any reason to follow Ranma in a spiral. Additionally, Accelerator would have a disturbingly easy time actually killing Ranma. The only technique of Ranma's I can think of that might work is one of the Umi-Sen-Ken attacks, which, depending on your interpretation, forces out their ki in a rather violent way with a special strike to the back, but even that might not work because of Accellerator's defense negating the pressure point aspect of it. Really, only Touma or someone with a similar ability (maybe the main guy from Mx0 while he still has his initial spell-card, or Asuna from Mahou Sensei Negima once she learns how to control her ability) would have a chance against Accellerator... well, actually, now that I think about it, if she was willing to kill him, Biribiri's roommate/stalker could probably teleport pieces of him all over the place just by touching him. Accellerator's power is supposed to be broken, that is why it is so amazing that Touma beats him. Really, there isn't anything Ranma can pull of that would have a higher chance of harming Accellerator than what Biribiri can do, as far as I know. He can re-direct freakkin' lightning! Do you know how fast lightning moves? Ranma's speed doesn't even matter against that, the only way the Flash could beat Accellerator would be to run back in time and somehow prevent his power from developing or something ridiculous like that, given that he can redirect something that approaches light speed. Accelerator's defensive field is automatic, even slamming him into the ground or knocking him around he'll be protected, and he can, sort of, fly, if he wants to, or at least soften landings well. His automatic defenses protect his internals from G-forces anyway, so it doesn't really matter if he falls even at faster than terminal velocity or does stupidly fast turns. He probably can't even get dizzy under normal circumstances before his brain damage.
the teleport trick wouldn't work as they already described how the teleport works with some puesdo science of aim moving/teleporting the material through the 5th dimension. Since aim is need at the point where the material is brought back into this dimension since his ability gets to the point that it can redirect and control even aim it would counter it. Ranma could beat accelerator the same way the scientist did (not in the anime yet, 2nd season might get up to him though), by reversing the direction of his punch the moment it touches accelerators redirect field so instead of his punch getting redirected backwards it redirects it forward again (physically impossible in RL but in the series since a 'normal' human did it ranma could probably do it, and one punch from ranma would take initial accelerator out).
A few other thoughts on Accelerator. We know he can be taken down if too focused on one task, given how he was shot when removing the programming in Last Order (the youngest Misaka clone), so you could actually make a case that double teaming him with one person using a relatively constant series of attacks and the other hitting him with a projectile, fist or whatever would work. There is always an option to use poisons, potions etc in food or drink. Lastly we don't know how Accelerator is affected by illusions.
Here is a question to start a total bitch fest. "Demon god assault bomb" is supposed to be a 'vacuum blade' attack, as in a 'blade of nothing'. So if it's nothing can the Accelerator deflect it?
Accelerator would eat a wind blade instead as he would reverse the vacuum blade and funnel air into it instead.
So then he'd reflect the air blade or would he take the shot to the face? I mean if what your going that way at what point is air reflected away he has to breath somehow?
Not really. I read it as a normal target would be cut by a blade of pure vacuum, but he would be hit by a blade of compressed air.
"Cut" is actually probably the wrong word to use. A 'vaccum blade,' if such a thing were even possible, would be more like a 'ripping' effect since the air moves laterally to the surface, using friction to pull it in opposite directions from the 'plane' of the attack. The 'reverse' would be a 'pinching' attack, where the air moves laterally to the surface, pushing in opposite directions toward the plane of attack. The result would be a decreased air density above and below a stationary 'blade' of compressed air (not moving forward or backward) and 'squeezing' damage on the target area as well as immediately above and below it, as it is pushed toward the plane of the attack. I would say it would not cut, but would cause a lot of generalized tissue damage over a wide area; potentially either very messy or just very bruising.
Accelerator would be a problem, until Ranma manages to pull off a hiryu shoten ha.
my thoughts are that the attack that has the biggest chance of hitting him is Moko Takabishi. It's maid out of Ki, which is OCP to toaruverse. Accelerator needs to understand what it is he's redirecting to be able to do so.
Well, Accelerator doesn't need to filter life energy and vacuum; it's basically shown that he auto-redirects any vector that comes into contact with his body. Ki is not quite the OCP for him that it would be for some others. Of course, there's a number of fairly obvious ways around this - Touma figured out a few and I'm pretty darn certain that Ranma would as well, given a little bit of observation. Secondly, while he cannot directly control the vectors of phenomena that he does not understand, he has shown a remarkable capability to understand such phenomena almost as quickly as they are applied to him. Not entirely unlike Ranma himself, there. As such, I'd bank on a rather interesting fight between the two, with both sides continuously analyzing and countering whatever the other side is doing rather than a simple curbstomp either way. I'd wager this would be pretty frustrating for Accelerator, though, whereas Ranma might very well be happy about having found a suitable practice partner/rival.
His reflect filter is based on his own understanding of the physics and matter, so when Kakine went at him with unknown "dark matter" he was unable to reflect it, before he transcended his human mind for a short while and turned the guy into paste. Life energy is not something scientific in toaruverse, he could perhaps reflect some of the ki blast that his barrier can recognize, but the stuff it can't calculate will go through without problem, he would probably hax it once he went level 5.5, but at clear level 5 he will not be able to deal with it. Touma on the other hand, well, it was mentioned that he could wreck even natural things at higher power output of his hand, such as leylines, life force, so his hand should deal with ki blasts as he does with magical and esper projectiles, his hand will cancel out a bullet and keep cancelling a generated stream of ki if Ranma had an attack like that. Ofcourse, in clean fight Touma is just a brawler, anyone who knows how to fight in close quarters trashes him. Best way to deal with Accelerator is to throw Touma at him, sort of like what happened in England.
Accelerator can redirect any physical force directed against him. Before his lobotomy, he did this unconsciously, and could even stop bullets without noticing. If you hit him, as demonstrated by those thugs that attacked him, he redirects the current of your blood in your body, basically making you explode. He is one nasty mother to face in a close quarters fight. And Touma only won because of his Haxx, and Accelerators complete mental shut down when he couldn't affect Touma.
Fighting accelerator would involve fighting accelerator then not dying. Reviewing the moves then assasination Accelrator Unisenken snatching fist style pulling at the last movment causing him to pull it liek that guy said th ecounter was.
In every argument involving Ranma vs Accelerator the later is put into a category similar Saffron in that it would an all or nothing fight, but I put more in Herb’s category in that it would take multiple fights before Ranma figures out how to beat him. It is less that that Ranma is powerful enough to defeat him, but more that he is durable enough to survive.
It is true most of Ranma’s ability would be useless and any initial confrontation with them would end up with Ranma in the hospital he wouldn’t be in any risk of being killed. As stated Accelerated isn’t a sadist he doesn’t look for trouble the people he brutalizes all go after him not the other way around. So a combination of Ranma’s healing factor and Durability and the fact that Accelerator wouldn’t be going full out could be the deciding factor especially if you add in Heaven Canceller medical ability. Ranma would end up with at most a broken arm and some bruises.
There second fight would be were it really matter’s. Yes Accelerator is extremely powerful he has a number of weaknesses’ that Ranma could exploit. The easiest is that he can’t reflect something if he doesn’t know the correct vector equations for it. There is little difference between ki and magic. However while Magic is to complicated to be completely redirected a ki blast would be so basic that that it would be a complete unknown so Accelerator wouldn’t be able to completely redirected. Redirecting a vacuum blade would just funnel air into it resulting in a blast of air. While it would take some ingenuity (which isn’t hard for Ranma) a Hiryu shoten ha could also work as Accelerator as he can’t use his Aerokinesis if the wind is moving in an abnormal direction. There is also dividing his focus which is how Amai Ao was able to shoot him in the head. Finally Accelerator himself mentioned that suffocating him would work so maybe a variation of the Deep-Sea Demon Wrap. While Ranma beating Accelerator would still be far-fetched he would be able to put in a sizable dent in him and get away. Though since Accelerator would be far more willing to go all out in a second confrontation. It is a given that Ranma will end up seriously injured.
Finally the Kiseru/Fan Throw follows the same principles as Vector Manipulation in that it changes the magnitude and direction of an object to maneuver it in the desired way. So it is not implausible once Accelerator’s ability is explained to him (or he figures it out) to come up up with something similar to Kihara’s technique or even already have a technique and would just need to apply it offensively instead of defensively.
My consensus is that Ranma would be able to figure out a way to defeat Accelerator but by the time he does he would either be to injured to utilize it or there would no longer be a reason to fight him.